mantooth02
Researcher
Dieter the Saurornitholestes [F4:ManTooth02]
Posts: 134
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Post by mantooth02 on Sept 4, 2009 14:54:38 GMT
Came across this late last night. The idea is intriguing if not controversial and that's why I'm posting it here as this could turn into a debate. What do you guy's think? Sounds perfectly plausible to me. www.flickr.com/photos/markwitton/522293984/
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Dadltondmd
Junior Member
[F4:Dadltondmd]
Posts: 12
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Post by Dadltondmd on Sept 4, 2009 18:28:24 GMT
I can see ceratopsians being omnivores... they're beaks look very good for slicing flesh. (Keep in mind that I haven't actually read the whole thing yet.)
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Post by orion1989 on Sept 4, 2009 19:22:20 GMT
this would go along with the idea that many ceratopsians may have been like the hadrosaurs, sometimes, walking on four legs, and sometimes walking on only two. They were elated to the pachycephalasaurs, who we normally picture as bipedal.
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Post by Dino589 on Sept 4, 2009 20:05:55 GMT
Personally I've always been a believer of its plausibility.
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Post by schnautzr on Sept 5, 2009 3:50:12 GMT
I can't find any evidence supporting a completely carnivorous nature. What I did learn is that carnivores and omnivores tend to open their jaws at an angle (not parallel), whereas herbivores tend to open their jaws in a mostly parallel to one another. In analyzing the jaw, it resembles that of a grazing herbivore, except for the beak portion. This beak doesn't appear to be useful for ripping flesh, although I could be quite mistaken. The teeth used for chewing are not sharp, like the ones we see in carnivores, but are rather square like those in herbivores and omnivores. Does anyone have a good side profile photo of a ceratopsian skull with the jaw open all the way? And if the jaw structure of a baby Triceratops means anything, then the photo won't be necessary. That one looked rather like the up/down movement was taking place. So the only way an omnivorous ceratopsian could have existed now is if someone can prove the beak was ideal for flesh-tearing. Oh...if this study tells anyone anything...it's about ceratopsian jaw mechanics, but it's rather brief, shows no data or procedure, and is difficult to understand: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19711460?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
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Post by Dino589 on Sept 5, 2009 14:04:34 GMT
I looked for a pic of a triceratops with its jaws open for you, but this is the most open I could find. I don't know of any evidence about how good of a flesh-ripping utensil the beak would be, however I have a friend who is basically like a walking dino encyclopedia and he says that Ceratopsians had a strong bite and the beak would have been very sharp; getting a bite from one would have been quite painful and deadly.
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Post by schnautzr on Sept 5, 2009 17:15:16 GMT
I think the next step is to look at the functions of various bird beaks, specifically herbivorous and omnivorous ones. I need to work on some chores, biology homework, and finances first, though.
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mantooth02
Researcher
Dieter the Saurornitholestes [F4:ManTooth02]
Posts: 134
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Post by mantooth02 on Sept 5, 2009 21:54:35 GMT
I looked for a pic of a triceratops with its jaws open for you, but this is the most open I could find. I don't know of any evidence about how good of a flesh-ripping utensil the beak would be, however I have a friend who is basically like a walking dino encyclopedia and he says that Ceratopsians had a strong bite and the beak would have been very sharp; getting a bite from one would have been quite painful and deadly. The article itself gets pretty into the function and design of ceratopsian jaws.
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Post by Dino589 on Sept 6, 2009 2:35:50 GMT
I looked for a pic of a triceratops with its jaws open for you, but this is the most open I could find. I don't know of any evidence about how good of a flesh-ripping utensil the beak would be, however I have a friend who is basically like a walking dino encyclopedia and he says that Ceratopsians had a strong bite and the beak would have been very sharp; getting a bite from one would have been quite painful and deadly. The article itself gets pretty into the function and design of ceratopsian jaws. I know, though unfortunetly I didn't get all of it. Oh and oops, I just realized I forgot to post the pic I had mentioned. Oh well.
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mantooth02
Researcher
Dieter the Saurornitholestes [F4:ManTooth02]
Posts: 134
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Post by mantooth02 on Sept 8, 2009 20:35:47 GMT
this would go along with the idea that many ceratopsians may have been like the hadrosaurs, sometimes, walking on four legs, and sometimes walking on only two. They were elated to the pachycephalasaurs, who we normally picture as bipedal. I've never heard about larger ceratopsians supposedly being able to walk bipedal, I believe the consensus is that their heads were too large and heavy to do that. EDIT: Grammar error
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Post by schnautzr on Sept 8, 2009 21:18:21 GMT
Their forelimbs of the larger ones had such huge humeruses, it'd be hard to persuade me that they were bipedal.
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Post by schnautzr on Sept 10, 2009 18:53:47 GMT
I consulted Eric McCloud, an expert on plant defense; this is what he had to say:
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hermes888
Researcher
Pterafrax the Quetzalcoatlus [F4:Hermes888]
Posts: 188
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Post by hermes888 on Nov 1, 2009 12:46:24 GMT
Omnivorous Ceratopsians? I guess using an omnivore beak in Spore wasn't such a bad idea after all!
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Post by schnautzr on Nov 1, 2009 22:16:32 GMT
I tend to agree with Dr. McCloud on this one...that the ceratopsians were primarily feeders of tough plant material such as cane and if they ate any animals it was an accident.
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